Gebanibespik:Jmb

Glidis!

Dear Jmb, I finally read your message -- I spent most of my wiki-time this month working on city stubs for the Volapük Wikipedia, and did nothing in wiktionary -- sorry for the delay! Yes, it would be great if you wanted to help entering De Jong's Wörterbuch. Have you had a look at the templates, and how they work? What I am doing is basically entering every word from the Wörterbuch (I have an original), with the German translation and a few other details (morphemic analysis, related words, pronunciation, etc.). I'm at the end of letter B (I have entered a few scattered words beginning with other letters when I felt bored with B-words, but mostly I've done B-words). I'm now trying to come up with a python2.5 program that I could use as a bot to enter words faster -- it certainly is a repetitive task that could probably be mostly automated.

I'm not entering Cherpillod's dictionary, or even Ralph Midgley, for the following reason: I would like this to contain only de Jong's translations, from three sources only (the Wörterbuch, the Fövots -- those on the net, and also the remaining others, in the possession of Mr Caraco, who perhaps I'll be able to visit at some point --, and the lists with "Vöds Nulik" from the Volapükagased pro Nedänapükans). This preference is justified by Jong's translations being, let's say, canonical, since he was the authority on revised Volapük: all other translations -- Cherpillod's, Midgley's -- are derived from his, directly or indirectly. In the future, they may also be included in some way or another (I still don't know how exactly), but for the time being I feel that de Jong's translations are the primary source and deserve priority. --Smeira 12:20, 16 yunul 2007 (UTC)

Well, thank you! That's indeed a wonderful piece of work; I'm sure it'll help in speeding up the entering of new words. How did you do this? Did you copy each headword by hand? Or did you scan and OCR them? If I may ask you a favor: would you mind breaking the list up in smaller pieces (say, each "lised" in four pieces)? Because of their size, it takes a while to be able to open and edit them. --Smeira 14:18, 27 yunul 2007 (UTC)

It must have taken a very long time to copy everything -- I'm sort of doing the same here, and I've not even finished "b" yet... I suppose I could write a python script that would take your list and create a page for each item, plus de Jong's German translation and part-of-speech specification. (I wonder if it would be better to create empty pages for all words first, and then add further information via independent scripts. I'll think about that. That'll be my Volapük work for next month.)
I'm curious about your interest in Volapük. Where did you learn about this language? --Smeira 17:17, 29 yunul 2007 (UTC)

How wonderful! Do you happen to have a website on IALs? I think I once came upon one, and your username -- Jmb -- sounds familiar. As for me, I'm a professional linguist (I work on Amazonian languages of the Cariban and Tupi family -- I've been writing a Wikipedia article on one of them, Tiriyó, in case you're curious) -- and languages of all kinds, including IALs, are a fascinating hobby for me. I learned Esperanto at one point, and via Esperanto came to Volapük; I found Ralph Midgley's online course, Volapük vifik, which I wholeheartedly recommend if you want to learn to read (perchance to speak?) the language. I devoured it and, God knows why, fell in love with the language. I strated doing translations (I did a lot of them), then I came upon the Volapük wikipedia and wiktionary, and started putting my Volapük energy into them. I currently live in Leiden (the Netherlands), but I'm originally from Brazil.

I see you've been adding new words -- that's great! You've noticed the details in the template (like, when adding a verb, write only the stem in the "vöd" field -- so "zugön" has "vöd = zug", not "vöd = zugön", so that the conjugation looks right). Just one little thing -- you can add 'rig' to the "tümaklad" field, so that the template lists the word as a "rigavöd" and includes it in the "rigavöd" class. I.e., write "tümaklad=rig" when entering a new "rigavöd". (The other possiblities are "ped" for "Defomamavöd" -- derived word, and "kob" for "Koboyümavöd" -- compound. So "zugön" is not a "rigavöd", since it has a suffix "-ön"; therefore, for it, "tümaklad=ped" -- and also "tümaplän=[[zug]] + ''[[-ön]]''" with the analysis of the word, if you feel like it... I've done it to "zugön" so that you can see what it looks like.

Hey, should you happen to have any ideas or suggestions -- about the template and its structure, about the organization of vo.wiktionary, etc. -- feel free to tell me! --Smeira 19:06, 2 yulul 2007 (UTC)

P.S.: In the pronunciation field ("pron="), I note there's a specific IPA character for 'ts' that I've been using ([ʦ]), not two characters, 't' and 's'. --Smeira 19:08, 2 yulul 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, zän and zäl look all right. Please go on! You're right with respect to koboyüma- and defomamavöds; though one might debate if a word like "numavödik" -- a defomam from the koboyümavöd "numavöd" -- isn't better seen as a defomamavöd, or as a "mixed word" (migavöd?), I prefer, at least for the time being, to consider any words with more than one rigavöd automatically as koboyümavöds.

I added an etymology to zän (fonapük=Linglänapük, fonavöd = center, küpet = pebrefüköl; ter pemoükon -> 'shortened; 'ter' was removed'). Of course, these fields contain suggestions (speculations, wild guesses, etc.); you're welcome to add or change any according to your ideas (and perhaps add a justification to the talk or "bespik" page, if you think the etymology isn't obvious). There are of course many difficult cases ("cil" is from English "child", but what about "pul"? Latin "puer"? "Zän" is probably from "center" -- or maybe German "Zentrum"? --, but how about "zäl"? A shortened version of "celebration"? And so on.)

Right now, as you may have noticed, I'm adding pages for the words in your list. I've just written a little python program for this; it is right now adding d-initial words. Each new page is an empty template, only with "vöd=" + the word, and "klad =" + the part of speech. If I'm lucky, I'll be able to add all words in your list in the next few days. Of course, the meanings, pronunciation, analysis, derived words, explanations, translations, etc. still have to be added... --Smeira 02:47, 3 yulul 2007 (UTC)

Volapük Wikipedia

Hi Jmb, I saw in your comment at the Proposal for Closing vo.wiki that you don't agree with bot-created articles. If you want to talk about that, outside the context of the proposal, we could do it here. My main point is that bot-created stubs are not in essence different from human-created stubs; if the latter are acceptable, so must the former be. --Smeira 08:39, 20 tobul 2007 (UTC)

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